A heartfelt comment recently on an earlier thread suggests a mass rebellion of dissatisfied customers in Shaun Stenning‘s Twalk ‘internet marketing business’ in Asia. (Sometimes they use the brand ‘Snipr‘, I believe.)
Shades of the Geekversity train wreck which saw demand for refunds sink that um, ‘enterprise’ with a AUD $5.5million loss.
This smooth-talking itinerant salesman’s quick-and-easy-riches-through-the-internet sales pitch was assisted and sometimes delivered by his business partner, local-spruiker-under-pressure Dean Letfus.
In hyperbolic marketing materials for the ‘online cash machines’ (cough), Dean Letfus was described (a bit like a professional wrestler) as ‘little known internet marketing expert (splutter) Mr X‘.
Questions:
- Could the wheels be coming off the snake oil wagon train?
- Are there any guarantees in this er, ‘operation’ — personal or otherwise — that the customers can rely upon? (It would be nice to think they stand behind their ‘product’.)
- Or is it true they routinely blame the customer’s ‘mindset’ and ‘loser mentality’ for a demonstrable lack of success?
But look how pretty, and soothing, the page notifying the [allegedly] hundreds of ‘rebels’ in the ‘refund movement’ of the cold, hard facts is.
YOU ARE IN MATERIAL BREACH OF YOUR CONTRACT PLEASE CONTACT shaun.stenning@dollarrose.com TO RESOLVE IMMEDIATELY
See?
On the stage, he [Shaun Stenning] said that user does not need to do anything but celebrate. But after you purchase, there are months of webinars that never come to end. Zero result after one year of education. His Country Manager in Indonesia and All technical Support’s Twalk Account also with zero result.
Now all his client from Indonesa, including his technical support demand him for refund. Hongkong clients already have successful refund movement on March 2010. Right now this Taiwan clients also start to organize refund movement.
Oh dear. The perils of hyperbole.
Oh, and see if you can join the dots on this mysterious ANONYMOUS internet smear campaign.
One fake blogger profile … eleven fake blogs … sounds like a fake ‘social arm’ game to me.
http://www.thepaepae.com/internet-ninja-cowboys/12725/comment-page-1/#comment-4666
A more obvious, childish SMEAR CAMPAIGN is hard to imagine…
This sort of childish acts can only be carried out by immature, self-proclaimed internet gurus who have yet to grow out of puberty age… I wonder among the Internet gurus in GIS, who may that be?
I can see why you might be suspicious.
For me the timing of the effort is illustrative … and the ‘internet marketing’-esque methodology:
spraying semi-literate fake ‘content’ through various fake ‘article’-propagation channels and multiple fake blogs and ‘social arms’ implies the people behind the ‘ranking experiment’ (with me as the ‘target’) fit the description spelt out in the original Post: “This is usually done in retribution for having posted something on a public forum which made the perpetrator lose face. …” (people with some ‘technical skills’)
http://www.thepaepae.com/internet-ninja-cowboys-or-schoolboys/6443/
It almost makes me sorry I’ve been so restrained.
– Peter.
Hi! Just saw this site, he did not fulfill his promise of what he said at the GIS seminar and I attended his Phuket event, but got nothing, earned nothing. Paid almost S$3500 for it and earn nothing! I am not a member of twalk, but I signed up for his Phuket event at Global Internet Seminar. He promised that we will earn, but we did not, he promised a lot of things but none was fulfilled.
The Singapore licensees paid SGD6997 and end up being offered USD1098.65 in return after one year of waiting..what about that! And they have to work (and treated) like being employed by Shaun..what sort of investment where 1)you have to pay to work during weekends and your own vacation 2)you have to support other twalk clients 3)you have to pay penalty if your are sick more than 5 days 4)you get much less than what you paid ?
This is clearly not an investment scheme..it is 100% manipulation scam by Shaun Stenning (and his gang of [snip] )..
That is so typical of him (Geekversity also has the same tendencies when it come to actually FULFILLING promises).
When it comes to collecting payment – he has a good system, but when it comes to P-A-Y-I-N-G back, the reasons/excuses are plenty..
such as 1)calculation on manual method 2)some of the clients have not replied to us re:their bank details after so many emails 3)this is the first time we pay to different countries 4)the most ridiculous – it takes TWO WEEKS to TT the money…(TWO WEEKS FOR WIRE TRANSFER OF MONEY INTO A BANK ACCOUNT? Really Shaun…oh please!)
And those who have taken part in his CPA Challenge #1 has yet to receive any cent until now, not to mention those in Phuket 2 event where we generated USD20,000+ in revenue he promised to pay us..and yes..the licencee’s 5 twalk account money (overdue since last year)…what kind of a sick company is this…filled with people with BIG titles but small capability but VERY BIG SCAMMING IDEAS..
I can sense you are upset, but please don’t rage here, I’ll tone your posts down. (If I have the energy) – P
OK ok sorry Peter…just that when someone you trust so much…end up with unfulfilled promised being broken and using legal terms to hit back at you..it can be very frustrating..
Feelings of being betrayed can be very demoralising..
Thanks. I sympathise. I really do. It hurts very deeply.
That’s what I was saying in ‘Fallen Hero?’ …
Hey Peter,
I found this and hey, can you imagine how ridiculous the Licencee terms are in the Contract, favouring Shaun Stenning and his Companies?
He doesnt even comply to his own terms!
http://support.twa.lk/documents/Licensee/Indo/Indonesia-License-Agreement.pdf
Check this clauses out – what a big bully…
6. Sick Days: Licensee must provide immediate notice to licensee@ssmmarketing.tv if they are unable to complete their duties for the day. Licensees are able to have 5 sick days without penalty. Every sick day outside of that the Licensee will be charged $250USD per sick day
Do share your comments Peter about what you think.
Twalk LIcencee – NOT!
I don’t know enough about these type of contractual agreements to comment intelligently.
Who knows? It may be modelled on a Starbucks or McDonalds franchise agreement?
There’s a big difference between an investment (passive) and a business opportunity (active).
– P
Hey, just read on Facebook comment : http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=87173668076
As of 11th January 2011, 92 Malaysians have submitted their Letters of Demand for full refund to Success Resources Sdn Bhd (event organiser) and Shaun Stenning. Requests to join the TRT (Twalk Refund Team) are still coming in and very likely, there will be a next wave of unhappy Twalkers – who have just learnt of this development appearing in the near future.
The licensees refund movement is coming next? No wonder Shaun is so busy promoting the Dollar Rose 3 “investment” scheme with 100% guarantee (another one of his typical hyperbole claims).
If he is not bothered to even reply emails to his present investors for Dollar Rose 1 and 2, what are the chances the new would-be victims getting their concerns addressed once their hard-earned money ..oops “Investments” as called by Shaun and his gang of [snip] – being addressed?
He lives in Phuket, while the rest of the investors are based out of Thailand…what can they do if he just pack up and leave?
Someone should go to the Australian Embassy or even make a police report to ensure they are protected (a strong hint here to blow his cover)..
A police report? No I don’t think so!
Nor do I think they’re a ‘gang of bandits’ as you say. (You’re indulging in hyperbole to say that IMO.)
Keep to the facts you can support.
– Peter
Thanks for the reminder.
The facts are there though you can remove the unkind remarks..
Shaun is back to work now..and I hope he is being responsive (at least) to the massive refund requests.
Cheers, Peter
Calling all SG Twalkers – pls write in to twalkrefundSG@gmail.com
The Malaysians have acted – IT’S TIME for SG to jump into the bandwagon.
how about if i am not from twalk but signed up for his event from GIS but did not get what he promised?
I guess you’ll have to look at the wording of the Particpants Agreement you signed… or any satisfaction guarantees offered … but there’s no harm in contacting that group, is there? -P
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by ra1nbowgal. ra1nbowgal said: Twalk refund – How Shaun Stenning handles it @ http://www.thepaepae.com/shaun-stenning-refund-demands/12161/comment-page-2/#comment-4680 […]
I’m from Malaysia, I can’t login to my Twalk website anymore. I’ve tried checking the rest of the related websites, they are all gone too!
http://twa.lk
http://twalk2support.com/forum/
http://www.dollarrose.com/
Must be related to the mass refund movement I’ve heard recently. Looks like I’m not alone.
Anyway, the program sux. Worked so hard wasted so much of my time on it following their rules closely, but yet get nothing. Totally unlike what we saw on stage. The so called nationwide effort CPA challenge earnings was so pathetic that I couldn’t even buy a plate of rice with it (RM2.99 ONLY). I think I’ll get even 10 times more from begging at roadside.
Warning to the public. This program DOES NOT WORK.
Is Shaun is trying to cover his tracks or run away now with all the websites down? Hhmmm. I want my REFUND!!
The twalk sites are still down! what are they up to?
Surely they realise it is not working …they have been claiming they are making money out of this…unless…..it was just a DECOY?
The twalk forum which has lots of members detail and information, has been taken down since months ago, I guess this is another way they want remove all the track record.
A brand new year, a brand new scheme.
—————————
Hi XXXX,
2011 is going to be our year; yes I say “our” because as a team we can help each other to achieve the goals we desire.
Singly we are powerful in our own rights but combine us together and we are unstoppable.
I am sure you are wondering how we can make this our year? Well follow this link and enter the password and you will find out:
http://mattstenning.com/uncategorized/vince-tan-and-shaun-stenning-present-project-wow-distributors/
Password: ProjectWOW
A very good friend of mine is joining our team for the year and with him, me and you we can fulfil any dream
…..Imagine 12 months from now how different your life could be if you could just join the team…….
Find out how to join below:
http://mattstenning.com/uncategorized/vince-tan-and-shaun-stenning-present-project-wow-distributors/
Password: ProjectWOW
See you on the other side
Shaun
—————————
Yeah, right! See you on the other side of hell!
So I am not the only victim of Shaun Stenning after all (judging from the many posts up here)
I am a Malaysian. A foolish and a desperate one. I was so blown away by this seemingly sincere young man SHAUN STENNING that I borrowed money from family members to invest in his program. Today, I am embarrassed to admit that I am deeper in debt, lost precious time working on his program, days and nights working on his lousy internet money machine (not!), webinars after webinars after webinars and hundreds of modules to read and re-read!. And what is left in the end? ZERO earnings. Nothing. But debts that I am still struggling with.
I am let down beyond words. He made it look so believeable and with his “invention” the Twitter Cash Machine it is all possible. All is left today is a program you cannot log into anymore, zero earnings, broken promises.
I just wish someone out there will stop this guy before he destroys more lives.
[Comment: Hey, I changed your user name because it was too over the top. Your comments and narrative are welcome, and please keep us posted, but please don’t get into abusing people. I know you must be upset.]
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I don’t know how this story will end, but it’s discouraging to hear from so many disappointed people who encountered the sales team that worked its way through Asia.
Have you made contact with other Malaysians seeking a refund?
Yes, I have found the Malaysian Twalk Refund Group and have emailed them at twalkrefund@gmail.com
I hope more Malaysians who is experiencing what I am going through with this Shaun Stenning’s Internet Marketing program will come forward and take action and try to contact the Group for assistance.
Thanks for your Blog here, Mr. Peter. Otherwise I wouldn’t have a clue whatsoever on how to share my lost and bad judgement in investment such as this.
Someone should better warn the Vietnamese about this!!!
Hey! I am from M’sia…lets have some numbers here 2 see of
Twalk Let Down – I am getting all these from my login and sites:-
a) DNS error – cannot find server
b) Case Support – ‘Assigned’ for more than a month; still waiting for response.
c) Twalk support ‘Blog’ – Last entry 20th Dec 2010…Twalk site -dead?
d)
[Comment: Hey, I changed your user name because it was too over the top. Your comments and narrative are welcome, and please keep us posted, but please don’t get into abusing people. Thanks. This isn’t to say I ‘approve’ of all the others, either. I understand how upset some of you must be feeling. – Peter]
Hey guys, don’t forget about other program – Snipr, Phuket event, Mastermind too! This is not just twalk! Many people signed for Snipr too and making hell lots of 70+ websites and making a few dollars per month. The investment return is like $700/year for domain, but a few dollar a month income! This is not include the time and effort spent to create the website yet! And now they want to ask for distributor for the stupid software?
The discussions here really do leave one asking the disturbing question:
How ‘fit for purpose’ were the ‘products’ being sold by these salesmen at these events?
Perhaps that’s why there’s been such emphasis on ‘mindset’?
– P
When reading grievances against Shaun Stenning, I’m reminded of that old aphorism about the people making the most money during gold rush were the ones selling equipment.
I believe Stenning and his team have very limited knowledge to pass on to individuals about how to make a living online. And I believe the sheer number of people seeking refunds adds some weight to this theory of mine.
Don’t give this man any money.
Yes, I tend to agree with your theory.
I have, from the start, seen these guys’ skills area as SALES.
The trail of disappointment, first from Geekversity in Australia & New Zealand, then the ‘new’ versions of the “internet gold rush” sales pitch (twa.lk & sni.pr) … in Asia … is palpable. Well, you can see the heat it’s generated in discussion here.
It’s ghastly.
Since Shaun likes to use his lawyers to gag his unhappy clients and even threaten them, I wonder how long he can keep using such methods to sustain…a better choice of word is..rescue him from such incidents in the long run. He cannot keep using legal threats all the time once he has been found out. can he?
Success Resources got to be careful in presenting him to the public from now on. They need to ensure the interests of innocent clients are looked after…
Hi Peter,
Happy New year 2011
Hope this new year brings our refund back pronto !!
As promised, this is the reply from them, i copied below : –
Wednesday, January 5, 2011 3:06 AM
From: “Shaun Stenning”
Hi,
I note that you are passing on comment on our email communications
in an online forum which is a direct disregard of our disclaimer, copyright
and terms and conditions.
Our request for feedback was made in good faith and it appears that you
are not extending the same good faith to us.
We will discuss internally how to proceed with your case considering the
actions you have taken to date.
S
Online forum? Could that be http://www.thePaepae.com, he’s referring to? This little blog? Doesn’t seem likely.
Let me say, this ‘gag’ mentality, seeking to repress ‘disparagement‘ of the operation and the operators has, from my first awareness of Geekversity been absolutely striking, viz, this, from the Geekversity ‘free seminar’ terms and conditions… ridiculous!:
I’m not a lawyer, but to my mind, there’s a HUGE difference between ‘defame’, ‘denigrate’ & ‘disparage’ … but amateurs/bush lawyers like Shaun Stenning appear to try to conflate them and, as others have noted, seem to try to threaten or intimidate people into silence.
That, you may recall, was my introduction to Shaun Stenning’s, er, ‘work’ …
Oh, sure. Right.
KL Kat: If you want, please keep us informed. – Peter
Wow. 142 comments!
Good one! This is the MOST viral post I have seen so far! LOL….
oh well Peter
his so called “gag” Order does not have a court stamp (cop)
so invalid !!!!
Seems like Shaun has posted in his facebook status to refund all those who are unhappy …and will step down from speaking at events from now on..
Can you post a screen shot of that FB comment?
Or email it to thepaepae (dot) com (at) gmail (dot) com ?
Thanks, P
http://twalk2support.com/blog/general/twalk-business-update/
Thanks Gary. That ain’t Facebook, but it’s worth putting on the record, I think:
Just a month earlier: http://twalk2support.com/blog/general/ringing-our-own-bell/
Let’s just hope that he will refund 100% (for both clients and licencees) of what paid to him and also not to drag the refund process. To be honest, we just want our money (and life) back.
Whether the promise is TRULY GOING TO BE FULFILLED – that remains to be seen. Let’s hope that he will not delay and make any unreasonable excuses and lay blame on other people in this process. Let’s quote back what he always say about a loser’s mentality – 1) Lay Blame 2) Make excuses bla bla bla.. If he ever try such funny acts one more time, there will be no more mercy…
you know what, i’ve been trying to contact him through the email to request for refund but then the next day i received a notice from gmail stating that the server is currently down and it will take about 2 days to resend my email. I’m terribly miserable right now because i’ve been trying to contact him but can’t seem to find any alternative ways to contact him or his staff.
and i am afraid that due to this problem, my email will reach him only aft the 24th feb. and then he would claim that my request is no longer valid because it has passed the date. tried going to the support website, but there is no update till this date.
I attended the Phuket event, it was done so well, Shaun Stenning is a clever boy. Prior to the event, Shaun had told everyone they would learn secret techniques for making money online. “I Guarantee everyone will make money at the event” and upon return from his event, you will start making $10,000.
The strategy for making $10,000 was to pay for traffic where visitors will click on your Google Adsense. A breach of Google’s TOS.
Another illegal strategy was to place images which would appear as a video. When the visitor clicks on what looked like a video, they’re actually clicking on an adsense advert.
Another trick was an old Youtube strategy that died out a couple of years ago. Shaun’s so called silent partner Ian Naylor credited this as his own creation…more like plagiarism.
The event: Shaun set everyone up on slow internet connections, where each person could try out his $10,000 earning strategy. Slow internet was the perfect reason why this couldn’t be implemented properly, so everyone earned around 0.50cents to $4. Shaun Stenning then started with the waterworks (as he does), and with fake tears of joy (in front of the video camera) “As I promised, you have all made money”
Actually, I got over being ripped off by Shaun Stenning rather quickly. Live and learn. What irritated me more than anything was the behaviour and stupidity of his followers which was like a cult following.
Shaun wasn’t the only person running this scam, he was just the mad genius behind it. His country managers were involved, Wayne Leung and Aaron Ngoh who were always quick to shoot down anyone that would question Shaun and his methods. Creating a mindset amongst Shaun’s followers that these people are losers, bad seeds.
And it was these same followers who would go yeah, you’re right, they are losers. The same followers who would grovel to Shaun, try to become his friend thinking they would get special treatment over everyone else. The same followers who tried selling Shaun’s failed software and schemes to their friends and family just so they could make a dollar.
And what about Lok Ch and Dylan Teh? Lok and Dylan were involved in the failed Geekversity Scam. Dylan then became a Country Manager for the Twalk Scam, while Lok was the guy pretending to be one of us, who would reply to any of Shaun’s posts, saying how great Shaun was. “Yeah guys, we’re all going to be rich”. And if someone would question Shaun, Lok was always the first to tell that person they have the wrong mentality.
While there are people who don’t deserve to be ripped off, I find that Shaun also attracts people who are just as disgusting as he is.
Sorry if you find these words harsh Peter, maybe you won’t approve this comment. Perhaps I could be more diplomatic when expressing my opinion.
I am aware that Shaun played on the desperation of some people, which brought out the worst in them. I’m aware there were some of us who didn’t deserve to be ripped off. But i’m also aware there were more players on the field other than Shaun, and each should get equal credit for this.
Thanks for sharing your experience. You were there. You’re entitled to comment, as I see it.
Calling this operation a ‘scam’ is, while a pretty harsh judgement (as you say) your honest opinion, and I guess, based on what you experienced in person and online afterwards, so I don’t see I’m in a position to question it.
How much money did you ‘invest’ in your involvement, including airfares & accommodation etc? In what country are you based?
The mindset stuff bothers me more than almost any aspect — the victim-blaming is horrible to behold.
So is the ‘tag-team wrestling’ aspect. It can be like ganging up … using group dynamics to intimidate people — I’ve seen it before in seminars/cults.
The people you name are, let’s face it, conspicuous by their absence from this discussion. Maybe they’re not aware of what’s being discussed here at thePaepae.com?
I’d love to hear some success stories… where are they?
– Peter
I don’t know who this Ripped Off writer is up there. But it is true. I have met Aaron Ngoh (Singapore). Wayne Leung (HK). Dylan Teh (Malaysia) Lock Chee Hong (Malaysia) Eric Cheah (Malaysia) and what Ripped Off said about them behaving like cult members kow-towing to Shaun Stenning is so true. If Shaun asked them to strip to their undergarments in public, they would! I’ve seen it in their faces in PHuket when Shaun in a serious face (actually Shaun was kidding and so he said later) asked Aaron to take off his underwear, Aaron almost believed him. Amazing.
I am pretty sure these guys will not have the guts to comment anything here in your Blog.
Lets see if they even dare.
LOL! Lame! I wanted to see that scene! It must be very interesting to know that! Muahahahahaha!
And yes, this “slow internet trick” was once again be used in Phuket 2 event! And he claims that this is one of the “challenge” that internet marketer will face and should overcome to be successful! WTF?
Any Phuket 3 participant here? How about Phuket 3? The internet connection has been good?
Well, if all 3 events’ internet connection are all lousy and slow, it means it is NOT coincident…
Or it could just be an inconvenient and unavoidably slow internet connection … ?
As Auric Goldfinger so elegantly put it: “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action.”
Please be advised that the Gary Y in the comment above is none other than Gary Yeow, aka Yeow Lai, aka the personal assistant to Dylan Teh. He has now been “promoted” and put in charge of peddling Con Stenning’s and Vince Tan’s new product on the unsuspecting Vietnamese.
Well! Quoting an Ian Fleming character (a master criminal, no less) is pretty classy, I must say!
On slow internet ‘trick’: See my reply below
http://www.thepaepae.com/shaun-stenning-refund-demands/12161/comment-page-2/#comment-4954
On GaryY: If that’s the case, he’s welcome to comment or share information as he did with that link, surely, too, don’t you think?
Strange that his only other comment was
“Someone should better warn the Vietnamese about this!!!”
-P
Shaun Stenning has been known to absorb his vociferous detractors. Case in point: many moons ago, there was this individual, Budihardjo Darnin, from Ponorogo, Indonesia, who openly accused Shaun of fraud in the Twalk forum, as the money that had accumulated in his Talk account was deemed by Shaun to be a result of click fraud. Funny thing is, much of this money was “earned” by Shaun himself, on behalf of Darnin, as part of a show and tell. Nothing further was heard about this event. However, shortly after that, Darnin became an Admin at Twalk. He is now tightly aligned with Mieke Juwono, the Indonesian Country Manager. Go figure!
One should not exclude Ms. Wong Lee Leng (a.k.a Leng Lagenda) being Eric Cheah’s (personal?) assistant.
Luminaire, lol – I am NOT the one-and-only Gary Yeow who is in Vietnam, promoting Shaun & Vince’s products, and yes Peter, it would seem somewhat odd, that Mr. Gary Yeow should be warning the Vietnamese, while promoting S&V, by his own namesake!
LOL
Hi GaryY. You have my apologies for wrongly assuming you to be one of Con Stenning’s minions. Still, stranger things have happened to us since we fell for his scams. :-d
Personally, I think his offer to refund could well be just more pies in the sky. I would advise caution.
GaryY, thanks for clarifying. (I can see why Luminaire leapt to that conclusion, can’t you? What a coincidence.)
So, what is your involvement/experience with these matters, then, if you’re not a promoter? Clearly, you were browsing the twalk forum for some reason.
Do you mind sharing with us what it is?
– P
You meant both Lok CH and Dylan were beneficiaries of the Geekversity scam? WOW…they were part of Geekversity group of partners and directors? Wonder how they managed to become their overseas partners? Can you share with us?
@RippedOff – if you have proof that both Dylan and Lok CH benefited from the “Geekversity Scam” – which you implied earlier..please post it here…if not, please clarify..
I don’t think it is fair to spread any news without any proof that others in the earlier Geekversity issue were benefiting from Geekversity’s failed project. Were they speakers? Were they recruiting agents? Were they part of Success Resources sales team in anyway? Were they owners or shareholders of Geekversity? Please check….? We are curious..
@Peter – what is your opinion on this?
[Comment: What’s your reason for asking about this, Curious? And why the fake email address? Why not just deny any involvement openly, if that’s your agenda? – Peter ]
Apologies ..just like to clarify if all other persons named and their roles are true as earlier posted in all comments here. also apply to all other persons involve
I was perusing Facebook and came across “The Geekversity Issues Group”. I did spot a couple of posts by Dylan Teh, and this Lok CH chap. Their role in Geekversity to me is unclear, you certainly cannot tell by their comments. There was one comment by Lok, who was very supportive of Shaun Stenning.
However, I must say I am starting to see a pattern.
1. There were some very unhappy customers
2. Shaun Stenning had apparently asked one customer to remove blog posts about him.
3. Shaun sent one customer an e-mail which states if he had spent more time following Shaun’s guidelines than complaining, he would have made money online.
(Just like all the other Geekversity participants I guess).
4. No one is making any money.
This all sounds very familiar to me, with what the Twalk customers have experienced. So whether Ripped Off has proof doesn’t matter in my opinion.
It’s the trail Shaun Stenning is leaving behind that will serve future potential customers.
The trail being unhappy/angry customers. Promises that were not met (which could be debated was the fault of the customers, and not Shaun Stenning). Emails from Shaun to customers advising of legal action.
And the names Dylan Teh, and Lok Chee Hoong.
If Shaun Stenning was to ask me if I wanted to participate in one of his online ventures, I would do my research first. And most likely, I would come across the Geekversity Issues FaceBook Group, and the Paepae.
After seeing these patterns, I would then know to ask Shaun beforehand, should I perhaps take an IQ test first? I would then advise Mr Stenning that I too am an emotional person. If I were to invest money I didn’t have and lose it, only to discover it was because i’m stupid…my emotions would get the better of me, and I would punch Mr Stenning in the nose. So by telling Shaun this, he could take all this under consideration before taking my money.
I too am curious,
Perhaps this Twalk program was too advanced for Shaun Stenning’s clientele? Shaun Stenning has been in the internet marketing game for a long time, so he would know the level of skill required.
Did Shaun Stenning give any indication as to what level was required to succeed?
@ Curious
“just like to clarify if all other persons named and their roles are true”
And yet you want to do so ANONYMOUSLY? Why don’t you say who you are, or who you represent? Email me privately if you want to.
I agree (and have said) it’s best for all if we present or link to evidence of any claims. – Peter
LOL, Peter! Treading carefully?
“Calling this operation a scam is a pretty harsh judgement”
Yet if you google Shaun Stenning Scam, your site is ranked 1st, lol.
“Or it could just be an inconvenient and unavoidably slow internet connection”
Trying to be objective, yet I can’t help but wonder why?
And I mean no offence Peter, I just find your replies intriguing.
My reply to your comment is below, and should be taken with a grain of salt, lol.
I lost around $2000, but don’t want to give too much away about myself.
I have made my money back with hard work. I’ve been learning internet marketing for roughly 18 months now. I’ve finally achieved my goal of creating a small residual income where i’m now working for myself. It’s a great feeling, but a lot of work.
As i’ve grown and learnt, calling Shaun and his country managers scam artists sounds pretty accurate to me.
What’s sad about this is Shaun is really clued up. He could help people succeed and make money online if wanted to.
The problem is, it’s a lot of work. It’s so much easier to make money teaching half-a$$ed methods.
You could look at IM as getting a degree, the learning curve is steep.
I could actually make a lot of money selling strategies with ways to get rich. And while my strategy would work (which keeps my name in the clear when people fail at it). It’s only one piece to the puzzle…meaning most WILL fail. And that’s why I don’t do it. It’s something called integrity.
What Shaun does is provide many pieces to the puzzle to sound more genuine, tips and tricks that make the novice say wow. Article writing, twitter, CPC. Yet all this information is incomplete. It goes much deeper.
For me to succeed at what I do, I have to buy and use tools which can automate processes for me. Time is so important in IM. What Shaun does is create similar software tools, except what the novices don’t know is how flawed the software is. It’s created to make Shaun, his partners, Wife, and his Country Managers more money.
Take Snipr as an example.
Snipr creates micro niche sites, (which yet again, Google does not approve of). To create a MNS, you need to do keyword research, create unique content in the way of articles, and have backlinks to your site to boost it’s ranking. Once your ranked on the first page of Google, you monetise your site.
However, the keyword tool is flawed and doesn’t provide accurate results. I could purchase a better tool for $30. I also have a suspicion, though I cannot prove it, that Snipr hides the higher paying keywords.
Shaun is telling people that backlinking is a traffic generator. His software will search for blogs on related niches and post comments and backlinks to your site. You have to buy credits from him to do all these things, when there are better tools that do the same thing, and require a one time payment.
1. But yet again, against Googles rules. This is a spam trick that boosts your websites ranking.
For a site to rank, it needs backlinks from other websites, the more backlinks the better. If the website who is backlinking to you has a high page rank, is an authority site, this gives your site more credit. However, Snipr is backlinking on free blogs with 0-2 page rank. You’ll need thousands of backlinks for this to have any effect. And it takes more than just backlinks to rank a website.
2. This method doesn’t generate a lot of traffic, and not all backlinks are approved as most blogs are moderated. And comments don’t stick, so will disappear over time.
3. Google changed it’s algorithm before the launch of Snipr. The new algorithm appears to be a MNS killer. Google have never liked these kinds of sites, and many of them are starting to disappear from Google….yet Shaun still sells Snipr, and his country managers still vouch for it.
4. This is not a full proof way to generate income, and it’s dying. For those who have created a MNS, ranked 1st and made little to no money will agree.
The truth is, there is more to keyword research than even I would share. I have developed my own method, but if I shared this, everyone would be doing it. Google would start to see a trend and change their algorithm. All my hard work would be down the drain and my means for making money destroyed. This is the reality of internet marketing. Learn, develop, put your own spin on things, and keep it to yourself. You can help others in different ways, but don’t share your methods.
Shaun is teaching people who are uneducated in IM bad habits, and he’s not even teaching those properly. Shaun Stenning makes broken promises, and Shaun Stenning plays on people’s desperation.
The truth in all this is Shaun Stenning and company are the only ones getting rich.
If this isn’t a scam, I don’t know what is.
Geekversity a failure, Twalk a failure, Snipr a failure…for everyone but him.
No wonder he moved to Thailand.
Thanks for your comprehensive reply.
“And I mean no offence Peter, I just find your replies intriguing.
Hey, I’m not offended in the slightest — let me respond…
(1) on harsh judgment … I said:
Calling this operation a ‘scam’ is, while a pretty harsh judgement (as you say) your honest opinion, and I guess, based on what you experienced in person and online afterwards, so I don’t see I’m in a position to question it.
Yup.
You have the burn marks and the personal ‘Eeek! I’ve been sold a pup’ experience — not me — so I guess you have the right to be harshly critical. That’s your call. But calling someone a scam artist would in some eyes imply a criminal intention to deceive. I don’t possess evidence of that, so, yes, I tread carefully.
You, and others who’ve dealt with the Stenning sales troupe who have shared here, may be of that opinion, even strongly. Or you may extrapolate that conclusion from your dealings … but I personally don’t have your experience, nor do I take your standpoint, despite thePaeapae.com’s Google rankings on the term ‘Shaun Stenning scam’!!
It seems to me there are obviously questions about this operation… and yes, as you say, a trail of disappointment, unfulfilled hyperbole and broken (over) promises.
(2) slow internet connection — as a conspiracy??
I questioned this suggestion based on my own seminar-organising experience, empathy and common sense.
A few years back I ran a series of sharemarket training courses with author Frank Newman. I recollect we ran four workshops over four weeks — three on foundations/analysis and the fourth on online sources of information and using online brokerage accounts.
We organised (hired) a bunch of laptops, ‘high speed’ internet connection (pah!) a server and ethernet cable connections. When the technicians set the whole thing up it all worked wonderfully — but as the seminar participants jumped on the web, things sloooooowed riiiight doooowwwwn. Frustrating for all of us.
Isn’t it plausible (it is to me, anyway) that the Phuket experience was a case of the same thing? Or some other simple technical deficiency, rather than ‘part of the plot’.
A couple of wise sayings quoted in a different context:
Occam’s razor:
“The simplest solution that fits the facts is the most likely”
Hanlon’s razor:
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
Thanks again for sharing in such detail. – P
I feel it may be true that the Internet slow connection can be a pure technical issue but it is also possible that it can be used as an “advantage”. The participants will never able to see the real earning on a fast connection.
Thank you, Ripped Off. for telling it like it is!
I don’t want to be a dark cloud, but it seems appropriate to refer commenters to this little post: A brief note about comment moderation
wherein I say:
It may be your opinion that people with whom you’ve had business dealings have acted dishonestly, but please don’t be careless about your allegations here at thePaepae.com …. e.g. ‘scam’ has a definite allusion to dishonesty,even fraud, and while you may very well hold that opinion, your careless expression of it as a conclusion weakens your case, in my view — and can give cause for grievance on the part of those you so label.
Far better to lay out your experiences in detail — the hyperbolic sales claims, the broken promises (as you see them), the poor performance of the ‘product’ etc — than to cast cheap character aspersions.
– Peter
Ripped Off’s description of Shaun Stenning as a ‘mad genius’ made me chuckle. How flattering.
We concur with Peter’s say on this. Please be responsible and stick to the facts, leaving out emotions (even tho’ brewing hot per TRT (i.e. Twalk Refund Team) members’ experiences shared internally) as we pursue Twalk Refund Collectively. Point is – to obtain refund, which Shaun has conceded – we are moving forward with this…
Those who are pursuing refund, do write in to twalkrefund@gmail.com (MY). I believe there is a twalkrefundSG@gmail.com for (SG?)
Godspeed!
Thanks for your support, TwalkRefund.
I’m all for laying out one’s experience and, as even a cursory browse through this blog will reveal, I’m in favour of NAMING NAMES. We are, each of us, accountable and as I have suggested, we have the reputations we deserve.
Like some others who’ve commented here, I too will be interested to see what this phrase actually means:
Call me cynical, but let’s see what the CONDITIONS of the refund are. Shaun was quick to claim he’d moved to refund people before Xmas … when I questioned him I didn’t really get clear whether he did or not.
But in the meantime, unsubstantiated (I’m NOT saying ‘baseless’ — I don’t know) public allegations implying some sort of criminality or attacking personalities or rumour-mongering about private lives — especially ANONYMOUSLY — will not help anyone get anywhere good, in my opinion.
Regards, Peter
Btw …. we’re not Shaun Stenning representatives nor are we Success Resources. We are a group of aggrieved Twalk customers like yourselves seeking refund from the 2 parties mentioned 🙂 For new Refund Seekers – pls take note 🙂
What will happen to the money generated from CPA challenge #1 and the next wave event tickets during phuket 2?
It was said to be deposited into our bank account since months ago…?
surely shaun will not waive it off and conveniently forget it?
will it be withheld again and wait for the last count of remaining clients and licencees before they get recalculated using abacus , asking for bank details (again) to transfer the money using TT (which shaun mentioned – require 2 weeks)
For the record …
http://twalk2support.com/blog/general/twalk-faq/
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Larry D. Lett and vksm, mom1luv. mom1luv said: TWALK refund movement – http://bit.ly/fug34W, Twalk FAQ – http://bit.ly/dMvTVX […]
[…] to post comments on thePaepae.com (and also sending me email) related to the discussions about the Asian Twa.lk ‘refund movement’ affecting the Shaun and Matt Stenning/Dean Letfus quick-and-easy-riches-through-the-internet […]
[…] clauses, which were sent to me as part of documentation supposedly prepared to settle the ‘refund movement‘ affecting Shaun Stenning‘s Twalk get-rich-quick-through-the-internet scheme in […]
[…] ‘comment’ about Shaun Stenning’s Twalk and the Asian ‘refund movement’ … Lesson: 'I've understand that there's no such thing as quick bucks in internet […]
The internet connection in P3 was OK. However, Domaining was barely taught. Ran out of time, it seems. Yet, Dean Letfus had plenty of time to “sell” his Real Estate product.
What has RE got to do with P3?
So, at the end of Day 3, SS promised to give us:
1. a software that would help us look for the 5 Buying Criteria
2. a 100+ pg pdf ebook that teaches us everything we need to know about How To Sell An Expired Domain
It’s been 3 months. The P3 group on FB have asked if anyone has received the stuff promised.
Till now, NOTHING.
And oh, we’re not allowed to comment that “nothing promised has been delivered so far” (yeah, we’re not allowed to speak the truth), or we’d get a warning from Matt, followed by a suspension from Mastermind/whatever other course by Shaun till an apology is made, and the statement is retracted.
All we get is one excuse after another. API Key change, therefore “software” can’t be used at the moment. Just an example.
As for the 100+ pg ebook (which does NOT exist), when we ask, they would innocently email us the WRONG ebook (i.e. DeWinn’s ebook on Domaining For Beginners). Two totally different things.
When we ask some more, there would be SILENCE.
CPA1 payout was supposed to be in December. It’s just USD37, for crying out loud! That too, they can’t pay.
And you think they will actually refund us RM3-4K for twalk?
It’s all a show. To make them look good.
By March, there will be more crap/excuses thrown our way. Just you wait and see…
Maybe Shaun should change his name to Stall Stenning as that’s what he seems to be good at?
On a separate note, when they promoted Phuket 3 during the Next Wave Event in KL, the message was clear. EVERYTHING (transport from airport to hotel and back, food, accommodation) would be taken care of, by Dollarrose.
And if we signed up for Mastermind, that would include Phuket 3 for FREE too.
Just 4 weeks before the event, Dylan said the same thing during the P3 briefing. “Just get your air tickets. And let us know your flight details. EVERYTHING will be taken care of by Shaun – transport, food, accommodation.
However, one week before P3, they tried to spring a “surprise” by denying everything and claiming that it was all a huge misunderstanding. It seems now we had to pay for our own hotel rooms and transport!
After a lot of commotion, on November 12, 2010 at 1:04am, here’s what Shaun posted:
ps: By the way, Dylan is a nice guy. He’s just got no power to do anything. He, Aaron and Gillian De Noir (in charge of Dollarrose communications) have all resigned.
Thanks for sharing your experience, phuk-et! Interesting.
Your story about the promised 100+ page e-book publication never appearing reminds me of another book that was promised with much fanfare in a sales pitch last year … as part of the hyperbolic NZ Property Guru’s [sic] roadshow promotion — which Shaun Stenning fronted for Dean Letfus’s company NZ Property Gurus Limited.
The book — supposedly featuring a chapter written by each of the five “gurus” was gushingly featured as part of the “FREE BONUSES worth up to $1,772.95 for each attendee!” promised in the (13 page!!) marketing letter for the event …
Two copies of this “first book of its kind” were, according to the hyperbolic sales letter, supposed to be given to participants of the $47 buy-a-ticket-and-get-one-free-win-a-colour-television weekend sell-fest event. There was even going to be a ‘Networking and Cocktail Party’ on Saturday night …
Huh?
Participants told me the promised book wasn’t mentioned at the event … and the two copies never arrived. They could be wrong, I guess. It may have slipped past them or been lost in the post.
But I’ve never heard another thing about that book. I’d forgotten about it until you mentioned your experience — could that be another broken promise from the Shaun Stenning-Dean Letfus hawking machine?
Thanks for sharing, Peter. One LIE after another. And it took me so long to realize. Guess I’ve been had. I want out. From everything. And don’t want to have anything to do with people like these.
Trust is all a person has! Once that is broken, that’s the end of all relationships – personal or biz.
I wish snipr and Mastermind clients would get together and set up a snipr/Mastermind refund movement, just like twalkrefund.
Someone, anyone, please warn the Vietnamese before more innocent people part with their hard-earned cash!
You know, the worst part is, no one dares comment in the Phuket 3 group (or any other group for that matter) in fear of getting warned, threatened and suspended.
I guess the message from this painful and expensive lesson is clear – DO NOT GIVE THESE PEOPLE ANY MONEY!!!
ps: Is this how Gen-Y does things? Just like Spawn Stenning demonstrated at Next Wave Event – SELL the product first (to prove there’s a market), THEN build the product? Except, in his case, the “product” is not quite built and they stall and come up with excuses and hope we will forget about it in due time…
I agree with you. I personally avoid people like these guys.
You said: “I wish snipr and Mastermind clients would get together and set up a snipr/Mastermind refund movement, just like twalkrefund.”
I wonder if anyone will? It seems to me the attempts to threaten and remove negative comment (based on people’s experience, like yours) is designed in part to reduce that possibility.
My question: Is Snipr no better than Twalk? – P
SNIPR is “SLIGHTLY” better than Twalk..BUT…they are now starting to turn to SNIPR to begin manipulating the clients to pay more with new rules and twists..you see..the hosting is with them. so they can do anything they want, even to the extent of reducing any revenues generated from within Snipr..smells like Twalk to me..therefore, they can (again) threaten the very same people who support their lifestyles…see?
Again – they have failed in the unwritten rules of IM – do not go back on your words, and appreciate your clients.
For those who are stuck…get together and form another refund…get him out of your face forever.
As licensees, we were much badly-treated than normal clients, his crappy webinars dealt with 99% garbage that has nothing to do with sales (of a disastrous product called twalk anyway) and advanced techniques. They were held just to show that they fulfill their role to have webinars..various people were invited to host them, but they were waste of time. And when we asked why were we being assigned stupid tasks during events – the reply was “IT IS IN YOUR CONTRACT” – WOW! We paid RM7k more than normal clients, utilise our own time on weekends and normal work days…and now we have another JOB? And when we arrive late for tweetups, we were reminded with a “LATE ATTENDANCE” comment to the mighty, all powerful Shaun?
Well – He can go to Hell for sure, for all these things that he did…. Who cares when he said “I am sad..bla,bla,bla..”? We feel 1)VERY SAD 2)VERY HURT 3)VERY PISSED OFF 4)VERY HUMILIATED and wasted our time which he can never refund us..
Go [snip] yourself Shaun..and see if we care (but make sure you refund us the money in full before you do it)
[Comment: Hey, beware. Thanks for sharing your insights and personal experience. I guess you must have strong feelings about this, and I can understand that. But please keep your words civil. There was no need to suggest what you did (and I snipped)… OK? – Peter.]
One of the most hurtful aspects of things like this is the way the ‘true believers’ — in this case, licensees — are the biggest losers… on all sorts of levels.
It’s not just the $/RM/SNG$/IDR that are invested. It’s the trust and belief, as others have so eloquently said, and the way the person has often RECOMMENDED the ‘opportunity’ to their friends and family… only to have it prove to be a BIG disappointment.
Personally, from what I’ve seen in comments here and elsewhere, the ‘victim-blaming’ indulged in [allegedly, I guess] defensively (i.e. it’s your ‘loser’ mindset) by the Stenning sales machine (including Matt Stenning and Dean Letfus) only makes things WORSE. Much worse.
I talked elsewhere about the ‘anger and outrage’ victims of financial malfeasance feel http://www.thepaepae.com/fallen-hero/12903/
Whether the Stenning performing troupe falls into that category or not remains to be seen, but there’s certainly hurt feelings aplenty.
– Peter
If Shaun promises you about any soon-to-be-given-to-you-for-free tools especially software, well….you can be rest assured that…IT DOES NOT AND WILL NOT EXIST..remember he talked about the facebook software that can create complete profile, invite and make friends up to 5,000 to a FanPage and therefore make you money whenever you post to that FanPage of yours? IT DOES NOT AND WILL NOT EXIST from him…you never heard from him since the Next Wave Event about it, right? Go and get back your RM17,000…don’t make him rich with your money – he does not deserve a single cent.
In all fairness, snipr is a lot better than twalk. Just that, again, it was false advertising.
It is easy to build a site and rank with snipr. However, the insights generated (potential daily income) is highly inaccurate.
So far, I have not seen anyone make USD1K+ per month from one snipr site. A few dollars, maybe.
And, a lot of it is dependent on Google Adsense for revenue.
They also sneakily changed the “rules”. We now have to pay one Credit for every Insight we Generate. Sometimes, it takes an average of 10 insights or so before we are able to find one domain that suits all “criteria” (as per the modules).
So, even if one has paid for 100 domain credits, one has to KEEP PAYING to generate insights.
Some friends have their sites ranking #1 or on the first page of Google. However, they’re not seeing the money.
What’s the point? How long do we have to sit, hope and wait?
And now they have are launching an improved version of snipr – that is ProjectWOW.
STAY AWAY. THE THOUSANDS WOULD BE BETTER UNDER YOUR PILLOW! (At least you’re richer by thousands, as compared to if you were to give them away to Spawn Stenning and his merrymen and contribute to their ill-gotten “wealth”.)
Note: Strangely, snipr was first “launched” in Malaysia as Dean Left Us (lol)’s project. He sure lived up to his name!
Over promised and under-delivered? Well, I guess that’s not a unique sales experience.
Snort! 😉 Yes, I wondered about his ‘promotion’ as an expert — ‘Mr X’ in KL & Singapore but by name in Australia? http://www.thepaepae.com/little-known-internet-marketing-expert-mr-x-is-actually-spruiker-dean-letfus-oh-really/6160/
At present, he’s hawking distressed property rentals in Memphis, USA, apparently. (Was he doing that at Phuket as well…?)
In this case, may I suggest you and other victims (snipr and Mastermind clients)approach twalkrefund group and seek their help to launch another refund movement? It is much better that way, and then proceed to release yourself and others from Shaun forever. It is not easy to look or listen to him unwillingly for the next few months or years just because you have invested your money there.
I am sure there are more credible IM gurus in Malaysia, they are just not as daring in making false promises and flashy but much more reliable and trustworthy (and much cheaper too)..@all – please note…IM is not a get rich quick scheme, it takes some learning and hard work before you “crack the code”…do not let such bad experience spoil your ambition and drive…
[…] I had the opportunity for a long face-to-face discussion with Dean Letfus yesterday, as earlier forecast. […]
Another event that made us angry was Phuket2. Not only the internet was slow and we had wasted our time after spending 1st halfday with senseless, time wasting mind set session…at the end of the last day Shaun tried his upsell trick by saying that he will teach us the hidden, underground techniques with Vince Tan (his colleague at the event)on the following day for a price of…USD1,200!
Can you imagine how cheated we felt? Lots of time wasting, and instead of making up for it by giving us what we came for (he gave us the useless 10 SNIPR credits) he tried to upsell us USD1,200 which is USD700 more than the 3day Phuket event ticket. And as predicted, many fell for it..so he got richer by this..another stunt typical of him.
“at the end of the last day Shaun tried his upsell trick”
Gee, that sounds really bad, the way you’ve put that. What the hell?
Yes, I CAN imagine how cheated you felt. Crikey. – P
Hi Peter.
I read your Blog (4th Feb) on your meeting with Dean Leftus.
Empathise? Humans with feelings? Bad and wrong choiced “business partners” that screws up his big, supposedly successful, results guaranteed business plans?
It looks to me he is the loser now and the one playing the blame game. He should be the one to be coached on changing mind set. What makes him belief he is even qualified to “teach” people older than him by 10, 20, 30 years on this subject? What a joke it all turned out to be from him. This changing mind set bull shit for Phuket attendees who paid good money to supposedly learn how to make USD20,000 a day as he had PROMISED.
Actually, for the record, he told everyone on stage in Phuket 1 that he was “cheated, left high and dry” by a few business partners in the past and that he has today learnt his lessons and his mistakes and that he is EVER so glad, and GRATEFUL that he now has people who “loves” him as his business partners (eyes cheekily glances at his buddies ie. Ian Naylor, Dean Leftus, David Hunter and of course his then wife Stephanie Stenning) standing, smiling cutely and looked “oh so-awe-sweet and charming” and you could actually see the ladies melted away on their seats…. (spit and sputter phelgm if you ask me)
Yea, Shaun Stenning. Charming. Hey, he can even be loveable y’know.
You should have met him in person and not his mentor, that D.L
But. Bottomline is this. All that he portrayed to be and all that he PROMISED his CLIENTS are all BULL SHIT!!!!
Shaun Stenning must be stopped before he destroys more lives.
@SoCheated: Thanks for your feedback.
I can really understand where you are coming from. I can understand the sense of outrage you and others caught up in the failure of the Selling Machine to deliver the financial results that you felt WERE PROMISED.
Remember my comments in Fallen Hero? — it’s a special kind of hurt that is generated by that sense of FINANCIAL victimisation. I know.
You’re demonstrating Shakespeare’s wise understanding of human nature: “and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? ”
It’s not my role to ‘process’ you or any other victim through the stages of grief nor to advise anyone about how to respond. I’m not that presumptuous.
Indeed, my discussions with Dean Letfus referred to, and other conversations, touched on the emotional ‘harm’ inflicted by my ongoing (‘relentless’ he said) public discussion, exploration, and documentation (and condemnation?) about the activities of these spruikers and others.
I’m not holding myself out as a counsellor or healer. You guys (both sides) will have to all work through your ‘stuff’ around this. Good luck.
I know from my own engagement in a previous legal dispute that I pursued, that the ‘negative energy’ aspects of the conflict (and the time and money) can be substantial — beyond what most would imagine. Make sure it’s a battle worth fighting. Make sure the stakes are high enough that it’s worth it. Not just revenge.
As for your assessment of Shaun Stenning’s audacity to ‘teach’ others using a ‘I’ve been cheated and I’ve made mistakes — that’s what qualifies me to teach’ sales pitch, well yes, I agree, that’s pretty awful. But the window-dressing and emotional gamesmanship of the Sales Machine always looks so cynical in hindsight.
If the ‘product’ actually delivered and expectations weren’t hyped-up to the skies and key promises were actually fulfilled … you wouldn’t have probably judged that peripheral stuff so harshly. But that’s the risk they took.
Of course Shaun is personally charming. I would expect no less. If he comes back to NZ, I’ll try and set up a meeting.
– P
Shaun is really immature in that he should have realised all his hype,obesssive self-promotion and multiple scheming ways will sooner or later..come to an abrupt end if he does not fix the rot before it explodes – SHOW PEOPLE HOW TO MAKE MONEY from his much-hyped about product – TWALK…Now NO ONE WANTS IT.and yet he has not been able to prove that it works. That shows he has no clue on what he was doing all this while except for being a good salesman…
@anti-scam
What’s your story? Do you have a background or involvement with Shaun Stenning and his products … are you a customer?
If you’re willing, please share with us what’s led you to make these comments?
– Peter
Hi Peter
Wishing you a happy n prosperous CNY of the Rabbit and may all your wishes come true !!!
And no it is not about “REVENGE” All I want is my money back that is all !!!
To quote the bible “the revenge is mine” !!!
and for buddhists there is the law of karma
a lot of bad negative vibes going his way it is only a matter of time……….!!!
Thanks for your Chinese New Year greeting KL Kat. Same to you.
One of my Psychology professors at Victoria University taught us the ‘the belief in a fair and just universe’ is one of the signs of ‘normal’ mental health — it’s irrational, but being optimistic helps us get through life.
Clinically depressed people, on the other hand, have a far better grasp of reality, he taught us. They’re not so unrealistic.
Sad, huh? – P
This comment was posted in another comment thread here at thePaepae.com … and is relevant here, I think:
Thanks Peter for your prompt posting of my comments on Shaun’s complaints.
Ok, I have seen some responses from you guys, one of them seems very frustrated and untolerable of Shaun. Well, he deserves it.
No worry about the 24 Feb deadline, it is more for Twalk programme, for Snipr and other rest, we still can handle him. We will let him know what the local authority here can do for him :).
Keep your emails coming.
Cheers,
For Justice
Email: wrtng_stuff@yahoo.com.sg
Shaun’s fellow scammer – Vince Tan is holding a live workshop for his MasterMind students this weekend.
He mentioned that it is 1)FREE and 2) HE wants to HELP his present students to achieve their goals and 3) he will not take in anymore students in order to concentrate on his present ones..
This guy is a JOKE.
He never respond to any support emails from his old students and now since Shaun is “hiding” in obscurity, he is taking over the role of public figure. Don’t be surprised if he makes empty promises..scammers attract one another..if you fall into his trap, you are also falling into Shaun’s trap..
Why so cynical?
You call him a ‘Scammer’ — that’s your opinion, I guess, but based on what? Are you a customer of Mr Tan’s or just an observer?
Was the ‘Mastermind’ a joint programme with Shaun Stenning and Vince Tan? Are you saying Shaun has dropped out?
Re: SNIPRscam’ Hi, is anyone else in Melbourne/Australia interesed in forcing a refund from Shaun Stenning for his Snipr scam? It seems that asking him nicely doesn’t work. I’ve also emailed the crew at Empowernet, who hosted the internet event he was spruiking at, but no reply there either. I’m asking them for a transcript of his presentation so I can take to ASIC as proof of his lies.
If we can get a few of us making a complaint, it would hold more weight.
Please email me at sniprrefund@gmail.com if you’ve been scammed by snipr as well.
HI dragonsdread:
What’s your own story re the snipr ‘product’? What led you to be do dissatisfied that you see the need to publicly call it ‘a scam’?
As for your Australian ‘refund movement’ …
Let us know how you get on and please keep us posted on communications, if you are willing to.
– P
PS I mentioned your comment here: http://www.thepaepae.com/?p=14361
If Ian Naylor is selling SNIPR site for a measly USD56,000…https://flippa.com/auctions/122000/Snipr—Internet-Marketing-Platform what will happen to present Snipr clients ?
Can’t Shaun buy it for a measly USD56,000? He boasted to all of us in the Phuket 2 and Next Wave Event that he is the “BIGGEST” in Internet Marketing while Vince Tan is the “FASTEST” …
If Shaun cannot even buy over his share of USD56,000 ….it makes you wonder if he is really broke …..which means….we can all forget about getting our money back…
Shaun always claims that SNIPR is doing great, and Dollar Rose 2 is based on SNIPR sales ….
Looks like another empty promise?
[…] comment today on the Is this how Shaun Stenning handles a request for a refund? thread implies the […]
what about those who has signed up for snipr outside of Australia? are there any contacts we can get hold of? surely would like to get my money back for something that isn’t working
Would you be willing to tell us your story/experience with snipr?
I wasn’t aware of any concerted effort to gain refunds from snipr — or even what the complaints are.
At my recent coffee/meeting with sometime snipr salesman Dean Letfus he assured me people (including him) were making money with snipr … but surprised me by indicating a LARGE number of websites was required.
Gotta ask: will those sites fit into Google’s definition of low quality, low value? … http://www.thepaepae.com/in-the-cross-hairs-low-quality-low-value-websites/14361/
I’m sceptical, and the marketing hyperbole used to attract punters to the sell-fest ‘seminars’ makes me more so … and then there’s the feedback from people like you. – P
I haven’t wanted to interfere in this process, but I am curious to know how it’s working out for those involved …
http://twalk2support.com/blog/general/twalk-refund-faqs-part-2/
and
http://twalk2support.com/blog/general/last-chance-for-refund/
Emailed to thePaepae.com…
Hey guys & gals,
As mentioned earlier in my comments above, those who are victims of
Phuket 2 & 3, kindy email me at wrtng_stuff@yahoo.com.sg as I would like to have a meet up with you all, preferably by 11 March or earlier to discuss on the refund matter.
I had received replies from Shaun and “hammer” him till he gives up.
This “hammering” is in written form not physical violence, just to clarify.If his products are so good, why so many complaints? Is he telling us that he is right and good and we are all wrong and bad? Absolutely no!
For those in Twalk refund, I reckon you all will be asked to sign off a lot of unreasonable stuff. Just dont do it, it should be unconditionally. Otherwise, let me know, we will handle him together with Phuket 2 & 3.
For those Malaysians in Twalk or Phuket programme or both, you are welcome to join in to know how to deal with Shaun.
Hear from you all, kindly email me ASAP for a meeting to discusss further.
Regards,
For Justice
Hi great work!
What about those in Phuket 1?
Any ideas?
I hear the paperwork has been despatched from Shaun Stenning to a new batch of twalk refund-seekers.
Cue: Silent contemplation of the conditions demanded to qualify for any refund — with ‘confidentiality, removal of negative comment and non-disparagement’ being the key conditions, if they’re anything like the Indonesian twalk refund conditions (which seems very likely).
Some discussion of the terms here:
http://www.thepaepae.com/stenning-twalk-refund-conditions/13634/comment-page-1/#comment-6883
[…] as the ‘refund movement‘ heats up against another Shaun Stenning-fronted ‘enterprise’ (spotted the […]
Take a look at this explanation from Ian Naylor in flippa when asked about lifetime hosting which Shaun implies in his SNIPR sales presentation…
“The 500 customers were not sold lifetime hosting, they were sold bundles of “website credits” which last for one year only. There is no lifetime commitment, and so no liability, customers will renew domains and websites after 12months, thus the renewal income already mentioned above.”…..we have to renew our SNIPR purchases every year?
WOW!!! Shaun NEVER mention that at all, except FREE HOSTING, bla bla bla..
It seems to me some people have the ‘gift’ or ability to exaggerate the so-called benefits of dealing with them and minimising the costs.
In that section you quote, Ian Naylor looks to be trying to allay concerns about ‘lifetime hosting’ liability incurred by snipr (in an effort to sell it). … but he’s missing the point that those who bought snipr (licences?) under what they feel now were misleading circumstances will consider an implicit guarantee of ‘fitness for purpose’.
Why would anyone buy it? A court may or may not hold the new owner liable for previous customers’ claims — this is not clear, since the new owner is apparently being sold future cashflow from these customers.
I wouldn’t buy it. And the bid pattern on flippa looks bogus to me. Sock-puppet?
This side-comment, relating to the Talking Carl app for the iOS, is perhaps instructive …
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/03/03/talking-carl-app-has-been-hijacked-report-angry-users/#continued
I guess those upset enough about seeking a refund* will need to check out which route is appropriate in their own country/jurisdiction … – P
*assuming customers are unhappy with the highly-conditional bush-lawyer’s labyrinth Shaun Stenning has apparently offered SOME of them. http://www.thepaepae.com/the-stenning-tweebs/14497/
We better warned the people in Flippa before anyone buys the snipr site. USD56,000 is a lot of money and we should never let anyone get conned by them, only to end up with bearing the burden passed on from Shaun and his gang…
Kick them there by posting the link to this blog in flippa, enom or any other website flipping sites so that Shaun has no other avenues to cheat anyone else with this snipr BS.
Mastermind clients paid RM17,000 each for this…twalk is finished. snipr is finished, IMN – Vince Tan looks like getting out of Shaun’s circle and what’s left is that “Millionaire Speaking Apprenticeship” which is going to be doomed..These people will be the next to suffer from Shaun’s schemes…Dollar Rose 1 clients..wonder if they will ever see their money again…What a huge tragedy…Do you know some use their life savings for the Dollar Rose and Mastermind programs?
I really feel so sorry for them…
https://flippa.com/auctions/122000/Snipr—Internet-Marketing-Platform
Looks like it closed unsold at flippa. One would hope any potential buyer would do a decent level of due diligence.
I took a look at the bids…and I can tell you..they look like fake bids to me …https://flippa.com/auctions/122000/bids
Tbe last bid was USD50,000 but the one before that bid for USD6,100 …
Hey Peter
I don’t think SS will refund ,because …….2 long.
have a nice weekend .
Hi Elva,
To me, there’s always been an appearance about Shaun Stenning’s reaction to the ‘refund movement’ that he was a slippery character trying to go through the motions in order to point to a ‘process’ that he followed ‘as a responsible business owner’ — hence the deadlines and cut-offs and onerous hoops and hurdles he’s set for his dissatisfied customers.
Early on, he very quickly (and falsely) said to me that he had refunded dissatisfied Indonesian clients:
“We have refunded 100% of people that have asked for a refund.”
which, when challenged turned into:
“As for refunds a offer has been accepted and it is just being
contracted with legal council in indonesia. All comments whether on
your site or others are conditional on removal.”
Bleurgh!
– Peter
I wonder if there is anyway we can bring him to court and let him have a heavy dose of his own medicine?
Kick him where it hurts and get rid of him from internet marketing once and for all? Surely there is a way to do this?
This guy seems to con EVERYONE HE COMES ACROSS (apart from his gang of course)…
Hey Peter and all. A few of us met with two different sets of lawyers recently, and wouldn’t you know it, they practically shook their heads and laughed at the hack job that Shaun Stenning and Mathew Stenning proudly call a Release Agreement. The only thing being released, they said, were the Stennings and their charlatan partners, including Success Resources, to be free to perpetuate the scam. In their words, not mine, this whole rigmarole is nothing less than a criminal enterprise enveloping itself in a civil contract. The lawyers also suggest that we clients redraw the agreement as per their recommendations in these amended documents, to ensure that we truly do get our money back in full.
http://www.spreadmyfiles.com/files/11UEZKXZ/SR-Release.Comments.20110306.pdf
http://www.spreadmyfiles.com/files/SN3LJJFR/SR-StatDec.Comments.20110306.pdf
Remember, folks: It is OUR money. The Stennings are not doing us a favour by agreeing to return OUR money to us.
@Tick-Tock: Thanks for sharing these marked-up documents. They’re enlightening — especially what the notes reveal about how the “Release” agreement actually tries to extend the contracts and protect Shaun Stenning’s interests ONLY … binding the client to agree to jurisdiction in another country (Australia) etc.
Yeah, it’s like I said here: http://www.thepaepae.com/stenning-twalk-refund-conditions/13634/comment-page-1/#comment-7108
… I have the inescapable impression that Shaun Stenning acts like a bush-lawyer — a do-it-yourself, try-to-bluff-the-ignorant-and-naive-with-BS-and-bluster type … employing a very specific type of confidence trick: ‘threats of legal threats’.
Which country are you in?
Well done all! For exposing and amending the original agreement to truly bash the Stennings and prevent victims from signing it and get scammed (again) by the Stennings.
I could not open the pdfs…can you pls check? They are damaged or corrupted…
[Comment: re the PDFs … I downloaded them without difficulty from the first download link on the spreadmyfiles site.
re ‘bash the Stennings’ ? What makes you say that? From my point of view, those marked-up documents simply lay out the extreme one-sidedness of the promised refund process etc being foisted on dissatisfied Twalk customers through these pseudo-legal documents complete with fish hooks and seeking to switch jurisdiction to Australia — all in what can be seen as an effort to frustrate those seeking a refund for a product that has proven to a disappointment.
– Peter]
Hi Tick Toc,
Thanks for sharing the enlightening contract comments.
Shaun Stenning has a steady track record of making empty promises and not meeting his commitments, so I’ve already written off that money.
To his credit he may have taught me one of the biggest lessons I needed: not invest time,money or energy with people who display poor character. Leave them early on. The cost is too high…
Now is the time to move on …
Thanks for sharing your conclusions.
I guess the discussions here will form a chapter of the ‘steady track record’ to which you refer.
Hey Going forward, good for you, but I personally know some folks who simply cannot afford to lose this kind of money. USD 2,000+ is a lot, depending on where you are and how miserable your financial circumstances are. These victims had banked part of their nest egg and their hopes on Twalk working out. Some, I believe, had even borrowed money from moneylenders. Then, you have a huge population of licensees, folks who went to Phuket, and Dollar Rose investors, who gave Shaun Stenning and Success Resources their complete trust and a lot more money. Remember that each share of Dollar Rose was USD 10,000!
Now, you may be forgiving and even happy to learn that Shaun Stenning and the people behind Success Resources have in partnership bought properties in London and elsewhere with these ill-gotten gains. I am not.
I have heard reports of Twalk clients in Australia, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan and the UK approaching their law enforcement and legal agencies to put an end to the ping-pong game being played between Shaun Stenning and Success Resources.
The “chooks” are coming home to roost!
Yes, it’s serious money, however you look at it.
The fact that this series of disappointing events follows the implosion of Geekversity, which Shaun Stenning was reputed to have sold to Photon (whatever) before the dissatisfaction and mass-refunds in Australia destroyed any value in that ‘enterprise’ means that one is entitled, I suggest, to regard his ‘follow ups’ (Twalk, Sniper etc) with cynicism.
But from what I’ve seen, it’s not those ‘products’ that are the worst of it. The USD $10,000 shares in Dollar Rose which appeared to be an added ‘extra’ grab pitched to an adoring and pliant audience — I haven’t heard a good thing about them.
And since (as I understand it) it would be illegal to offer or solicit for those ‘investments’ in New Zealand and Australia without a registered prospectus, one HAS to ask: What the hell were they doing selling them in Malaysia, Singapore etc ???
Everyone on the sales team would be complicit in those, as far as I can see — including brother Matt Stenning, other family members who were part of the operation … and so-called ‘grandfather’ Dean Letfus. If promoter Success Resources publicised or hosted events at which these ‘investments’ were sold, they look to be caught in the frame too. Under NZ law as I understand it, they (Success Resources) certainly would be.
You talk about chickens coming home to roost. From my point of view, it’s these USD $10,000 securities that look like the biggest liability chink in the Stenning gang’s facade. That looks dubious and possibly even illegal to me (but I’m not a lawyer.) Signing a document declaring you are a ‘sophisticated investor’ does not make you one, legally.
Referring to NZ law (I’d suggest this would apply in Australia & Singapore too, but I don’t know for sure) If an investment/security is offered in contravention of the law the FULL AMOUNT MUST BE REFUNDED. End of story.
Dear Peter,
We have proof that a few of the former staff of Shaun Stenning are now getting involved in a disinformation campaign, to break our movement to seek 100% REFUND, as well as hold Shaun Stenning and Success Resources responsible.
TRT MY agrees with Ticktock’s lawyers, whoever they are, that the agreement needs to be amended to favor both parties equitably in order to move forward.
Please DO NOT pay attention to such disruptive forces.
Should you have any problems, please contact us at twalkrefund@gmail.com
Thanks so much for the update Peter..
All this while, Shaun has been using the so-called legal agreements laced with mind-boggling, legal terms to confuse us and project himself to be a superior human being aka Internet guru and each time we voice out our dissatisfaction, he used his “power” to threaten us. What a crappy person he is!
Now that we have revealed how baseless,useless and amatuer his “legal agreements and powers” are..we can focus on suing his pants off (as well as the rest of his gang’s) and kick him out of business.
Message to Shaun ..”Never mess with innocent,nice people – at the end of the day, they can turn to hurt you the most – and you deserve it”
@Twalk Refund MY: “disinformation campaign”?
What are they trying to spread? What on earth could they invent to make themselves look better? Broken promises by their promoters?
@scammedby… “…so-called legal agreements laced with mind-boggling, legal terms to confuse us and project himself to be a superior human being aka Internet guru…”
Yes. That’s what I mean about a ‘confidence trick’. – P
They are former local Country Managers, Associates, Business Partners, Shaun supporters, and generally people who belong to Shaun Stenning’s Inner Circle, who have suddenly found a conscience, and in the past 2 days written to us, wanting to know everything we have done so far and planning to do, so they that they may ‘guide’ us.
However, they seem to be unwilling to come out in the open and publicly declare that they have broken ranks with Shaun Stenning.
I don’t have to tell you, I’m sure, that you should regard the approaches of such ‘changelings’ and fence-jumpers with caution.
A leopard does not easily change its spots.
But you know that. -P
Hi Peter & all
how are you doing?
If a responsible person and company ,
refund will be easy and simple .
From now on ,please becareful one things we need to know,what kind of people need to hire lot’s of lawyers around .
There are lot’s of IM marster , why? they don’t need any Lawyers.
Who need many lawyers!!!!for what?
Yes,please thinking about it.
“Refund ” sure be a long long long way…….
but ,Go for it !
You know what? Shaun used to be very proud to announce he has lawyers and he called them “the best legal team in Internet Marketing”…what kind of Internet Marketers in the first place, would want to hire “the best legal team in Internet Marketing”…?
After all, he always called himself “THE BEST OF THE BEST IN INTERNET MARKETING”? Surely, to save his arse from being sued by massive number of clients, that is why……LOL
What a joke he has become ..all his hoo-haa ventures could not even last more than a year…typical of a Stenning venture.