For what they’re worth:
I make no claims whatsoever about the veracity of these clauses, which were sent to me as part of documentation supposedly prepared to settle the ‘refund movement‘ affecting Shaun Stenning‘s Twalk get-rich-quick-through-the-internet scheme in Indonesia. (Malaysia and Singapore are still in flux, I’ve been told.)
The documents, while extraordinary as you’ll see when you read them, certainly seem plausible to me (or I wouldn’t publish these extracts). I feel I recognise the wording and sentiments from other documents I have perused.
See what you make of them yourself … and ask yourself:
Does this rigamarole seem like ‘normal business practice’ when refunding a dissatisfied customer?
Or does it seem to go quite a bit further?
(I know what I think.)
6 Confidentiality and disparagement
6.1 Confidentiality
The contents of this Deed or the Agreement are confidential and each party must not disclose them to any person or corporation except:
(a) to another party to this Deed or the party’s legal adviser;
(b) if required by law, a regulator, the requirements of any stock exchange or a self regulating organisation which has jurisdiction over a party; or
(c) with the prior written consent of each other party.6.2 No disparagement
Each party agrees not to make any comments to any third party on any medium, including but not limited to internet blogs, which denigrate or disparage the other or otherwise make any statement, or permit or authorise any statement to be made, which is calculated or reasonably likely to damage the reputation or cause other damage: (i) the other party and their Related Bodies Corporate and each of their, directors, officers, employees and agents, past and present; and (ii) Twalk, the Program or any other product or service provided by Armidale.
….6.4 Removal Of Comments Undertakings
(a) On and from the date of this Deed, Client and TDW must immediately remove:
(i) All public comment made about the program, Armidale or its related entities, employees, contractors, directors or sub-contractors from any internet site including but not limited to facebook, blogs or forums. For avoidance of doubt, removal of the commenter’s name does not meet the terms of this clause 6.4(a) the full comment must be removed.
(ii) All public photos, images or logos of the program, Armidale or it’s [sic] related entities, employees, contractors, directors or sub-contractors from any internet site including but not limited to facebook, blogs or forums.
(iii) All public videos of the program, Armidale or it’s [sic] related entities, employees, contractors, directors or sub-contractors from any internet site including but not limited to facebook blogs or forums.
(iv) All email communications from their email program, which make comment about the program, Armidale or its related entities, employees, contractors, directors or sub-contractors.
—
Extract from required Statutory Declaration (Comment: !?!!):
1) I have removed all defamatory, derogatory and disparaging comments made towards Twalk, Armidale Operations, Shaun Stenning, it’s [sic] related entities, Directors, Employees, Agents, Contractor and Sub-Contractors.
Is that retrospective secrecy and ‘Removal Of Comments Undertakings’ stuff normal in these circumstances? I mean, I’ve heard of confidential settlement agreements but jeez, all this ‘remove comments, images, videos, logos … ‘… well, it makes me wonder.
What could possibly be the real aims of such complex clauses? To set an impossible hurdle, perhaps? To neutralise any whistle-blowing?
What do you think? Let me know. – P
PS If anyone wants a copy of the full documents I have, drop me a line with your reasons and I’ll email you a set.
On the futility of trying to keep digital documents ‘secret’ I recall quoting…
http://www.thepaepae.com/smallest-surprise-in-the-world/12304/comment-page-1/#comment-3375
Hi Peter, thanks for the post. I have been looking for this information for weeks. The only reason for those clauses is that the creator of the document wants to “force” the clients to shut up but not paying them back.
From what I understand, the clients would have to sign on this agreement before they can get their money back. And I wonder, if they signed this, will they really get their money back? I doubt so… and this is currently what’s happening to Indonesian as far as I know. That’s why we are still monitoring the refund progress very closely even through Shaun has announced that he will refund to all of us openly.
How can the Internet be scrubbed clean of all comments against Con Stenning? This is ridiculous! It looks like he is gaming the the settlement, such that we sign his lop-sided agreement and he gets away with not giving us the refund.
Also, I believe that when he says 100% refund, he means 100% of his portion, which is 50% really, as the other half belongs to TDW or Success Resources, his partners. I also believe that he pays out his share in several installments, over several months. I have been down this road before, and no amount of reminders were enough for him to cough up my money. Frankly, all this, to me, looks like another scam in the making, what with the recent mock decamping of country managers and confidantes. Again, I have seen this type of performance before. If anything, Con Stenning is a showman. This is what he does best. Smoke and mirrors, friends. This is all a big show. Enjoy!
Yes it seems unlikely to realistically work… which does cause me to wonder if the ‘condition’ is to be taken at face value.
See http://www.thepaepae.com/another-voice-on-shaun-stenning-refunds/13719/
[…] this is the very sort of ‘comment’ that Clause 6 of the refund agreement seeks to expunge from the […]
Whenever there is this sort of fine print, their intention to make money first, keep the money 2nd and deliver little 3rd.
I agree that the language rings alarm bells.
The whole document fails to impress … it has a home-made feel — perhaps written by a bush lawyer (amateur) trying too hard?
Its actual intention seems obscure.
We are working very hard to get whatever claim that we can get back from [snip] Stenning. This [snip] must stop once and for all.
[Comment: Thanks for your update Mike. I realize you must have strong feelings. Also, thanks for sending through the promotional email from Shaun. It’s interesting that he is doing that. I won’t publish it at this time. – Peter]
Hi Pete,
The long long process of refund….finally……an Agr & SD
WOW !!!!
A quick look at their Agr n SD states that we must be subject to NSW laws n be liable for payment of stamp duties etc Why shld we be subject to payment of this when the contract was done paid all here in Malaysia ?
I dont want to pay Aussie dollars for any stamp duty etc to them They are paying in instalments (no date stated for the second n third instalments) and expect us to sign the release Agreement and they are making SR pay us back !! Why is this so ?
When they collect payment from us, there is no payment of stamp duties etc !!!!
Why shld we pay costs (in aussie dollars for stampd duties etc) to release them ? They want to release hemselves they shld be paying for the stamp duteis etc
We Malaysian, are not subject to Aussie laws, to govern contracts made in Malaysia, unless we delibrately choose to…….sigh…..
We only want our money back in full not instalments.
SIGH………DOESNT LOOK LIKE WE ARE GETTING ANY MONEY BACK !!!
KL Kat
Yes I agree with you KL Kat, that it seems ODD that a transaction entered into in Malaysia (or Singapore or wherever) should be subject to NSW in these terms:
… as Shaun Stenning’s ‘refund agreement’ appears to require.
Even more so the requirement that since, according to Shaun’s covering note …
… a PHYSICAL COPY of the release agreement + statutory declaration needs to be [snail] mailed to a street address in Echuca Victoria 3564, Australia … which shows up in whitepages.com.au as a Stenning residence. (Mum & Dad?)
Looks like a big runaround to me.
Disheartening.
As is this comment from Shaun’s covering note:
Hey guys,
Join me in proper procedures to fight the refund or at least Success Resources (a Singapore event company helping the IM gurus’ seminars)be dragged in and punished accordingly. We will see how
SR will be careful next time not to just simply organised so-called IM gurus’ seminars easily.
As mentioned before in my other posted comments, this sort of agreement for refund to be under NSW’s governing laws? I guess not anyone is stupid enough to agree such ridiculous terms and conditions.
In summary, DONT get a refund and PUT yourself into more troubles! This type of refund is a trap! IT SHOULD BE UNCONDITIONAL! Otherwise, forget it, join me to take Success Resources company.
[…] what is behind the urgency with which Shaun Stenning is seeking to sanitise the internet (… including but not limited to internet blogs…) of ‘disparaging’ comment about his previous enterprises … actually seeking to […]
Hey Singapore Twalkers,
Please team up and work on this together, we will have a meeting coming very soon and we will let you guys know what is the next action plan to handle this.. We have an expert in group that have experience to deal with such… “incident”.
Please contact us at twalkrefund@yahoo.com for more details.
Thanks.
TRT-SG
Hi Pete
TQ for the pic of the address. I thought it was the address of his Solicitors in Aussie Now i know, there was no intention to refund anyways ……..with such lop-sided clauses…..
When we paid out money there no SD no Agreement only one form to sign The form is given by SR. The form has fine prints which u can see using magnifying glass.
Whatever SS contractual relationship is with SR, it has got nothing to do with us. Why is that included in the Agreement for us to sign ?
More BS i say !!!
KL Kat
I think there’s been considerable EXAGGERATION in the suggestions/implications by the Stenning gang that they would involve ‘lawyers’ or ‘legal action’ — it’s been used as an intimidation tactic to silence criticism by dissatisfied customers, from what I can see.
Aggrieved twalk clients have told me they didn’t have the resources to engage ‘international lawyers’ to fight Shaun etc. (And other things they made them afraid.)
Personally, I think the threats of legal threats are empty. Consumer protection would come out in favour of the clients, in my opinion. Especially given Shaun’s track record. He must surely know that he’s not a sympathetic case.
The documents and various threatening letters I’ve seen have been very amateurish — real home made, bush lawyer stuff, full of errors — beginning with the semi-literate ‘participant agreements’ for Geebversity and the plain HILARIOUS contorted threats and ‘defamation notice’ against Property Gurus attendee David Whitburn which were my own introduction to the rich fantasy life of Shaun Stenning:
http://www.thepaepae.com/no-april-fool-dean-letfus-claims-defamation/3319/
—
As for your point about Success Resources, yes, it’s another part of the Stenning hallucination that the promoters in Asia have been a big let-down to the Stenning performing troupe … thus the messy and unedifying spectacle of the document you’ve been presented with, trying to ‘protect’ the Stenning roadshow’s interests from their own promoters.
– Peter
[…] and making removal of ‘negative’ feedback from the web ( … including but not limited to internet blogs … ) part of their demands for the wispy promise of a refund to dissatisfied […]
[…] Don’t you admire (not exactly the right word) the slippery way a ‘confidentiality‘ clause becomes a non-disparagement clause? (Just like Shaun Stenning’s bush lawyer BS: … including but not limited to internet blogs …). […]
[…] You may also be interested in: As part of this settlement, you agree not to tell the truth … … including but not limited to internet blogs … […]