The recent flurry of legal threats (well, threats of threats, really) from Australian Geekversity internet marketing ‘guru’ and travelling salesman Shaun Stenning and local property spruiker Dean Letfus seeking to suppress negative comment about their joint activities (and, apparently, really embarrassing photos on Facebook) has got me thinking.
Judging by accounts of Shaun Stenning’s unpublicised but reportedly central role in the recent NZ Property Guru’s [sic] ‘educational events’ (described as ‘hard core in your face sales pitches delivered by salesmen’ by one attendee), I wonder if the self-proclaimed ‘gurus’ on parade — Dean Letfus, Steve Goodey, Kerry Christian, Kris Pedersen, Kent Leicester, Kieran Trass (anyone else?) — were the real ‘show’ … or were they just a chorus line of ballerinas working for this evidently smooth-talking Aussie Svengali?
Put another way:
Who were the monkeys and who was the organ grinder?
I’ve heard from two sources — can anyone else confirm this? — that Shaun Stenning’s ‘cut’ of the NZ Property Guru’s [sic] income for the two recent weekend events in NZ was an impressive 25% off the top.
NOT 25% of the $47 ‘buy one get one free, go into the draw for a TV’ door takings.
No.
25% of any up-sell or sign ups resulting from the reportedly hyperbolic, hard-sell, rags-to-riches, live-the-life-of-your-dreams, step-forward-into-your-future, see-the-opportunity-and-take-action-NOW-Sign-HERE!!! -type sales pitches.
For example, as highlighted by attendee David Whitburn: the Millionaire Mastery VIP ‘mentoring’ — now with ‘free’ US tax liens package normally valued at US$5,995! — was promoted thus: “Total ‘Realistic’ value $89,572” … Sign up TODAY for just $19,995 (!), four easy payments. (Wow, at least tickets to the sell-fest, oops, ‘educational event’ cost only $47 for you and a mate!)
David Whitburn revealed last week the disconcerting development that this $19,995 Millionaire Mastery VIP, um, program which was formerly delivered by the comprehensively backstabbed Richmastery supremo Phil Jones and ex-RM Wellington franchisee apartment developer Steve Goodey, is now, it appears, run by Steve Goodey and Dean Letfus — and this less than a year after Dean Letfus PUBLICLY TRASHED such US tax liens sales schemes as “high risk” for Kiwi investors.
Dean Letfus called them “snake oil complete with white shoes and wagons” and, along with local bean counter Matthew Gilligan (who even issued a formal ‘commercial alert‘), warned people to stay away from US tax liens.
So, it seems, well, … inconsistent of Dean Letfus (at the very least) to now PROMOTE them — as David Whitburn pointed out. Why would he do that?
Whose baby is it?
I’ve also been told by someone who attended, that Shaun Stenning enlightened punters at the ‘educational event’ in Auckland about the origins of the ‘Guru’ enterprise and events. Despite NZ Property Guru’s [sic] appearing to be a 100%-Dean Letfus-owned enterprise, he announced it was in fact, he, himself, internet wunderkind Shaun Stenning, who conceived of the idea, packaged it, and acted as impresario and pitch man for the local yokels. Hence the resemblance of so much of the Guru’s [sic] marketing collateral to the Stenning clan’s Geekversity internet marketing guff ( — if you’re interested, see how that’s working out for others by browsing the open-to-all ‘Geekversity Issues’ Facebook group.)
Certainly that explanation accords with Shaun Stenning’s somewhat transparent ‘authorship’ of the unintentionally funny threatening letters (PDF), one purportedly from Dean Letfus to David Whitburn demanding publication of an ‘unconditional apology’ and the immediate removal of the ’emotionally hurtful’, ‘defamatory’ and ‘copyright infringing’ (er, not really) photos, web images and statements on Whitburn’s blog.
Elsewhere Dean Letfus recently called Shaun Stenning ‘one of my main business partners‘. Well, with a share of 25% off the top, if that’s true, No wonder!
And no wonder if Shaun says something like: ‘I’ll dress down, you dress up’, Dean says: ‘Hokie-dokie!’
Any thoughts or comments?
(Thanks to those who’ve contributed information and background so far.)
Note: This post details the facts as I believe them and the commentary expresses my honest opinion. I stand by my comments, however, if I’ve been misinformed, or misunderstood what I’ve been told or misinterpreted any matters discussed here — always a possibility, as I rely on sources and first-hand witnesses’ accounts — I invite those concerned to contact me directly to clarify or correct any issues of fact, using the email address here. It is certainly NOT my intention to mislead anyone. –
Regards, Peter Aranyi. © 2010 All rights reserved. [Image: Organ Grinder by Norman Rockwell from www.best-norman-rockwell-art.com with thanks.]
I had a few thoughts about threats of legal action, which are kinda relevant:
Read the full post here: http://www.thepaepae.com/legal-action/2995/
Oh dear, this is unflattering…
Neither is this, about the demise of Geekversity, (which I didn’t know about):
Read the full story by RUSSELL EMMERSON Adelaide Advertiser 15 January 2010
The mention of Kerry Christian inspires me to post.
I’ve just “ignored” a FaceBook friend request from the man. To the best of my knowledge I’ve never met him, or had any email correspondence with him. So, in order to invite me he must have done one of the following:
* trolled his friends pages for “un-mutual” friends;
* “acquired” my email address from somewhere
Both options require a degree of active involvement… why on earth would he want me, a complete stranger, as a friend? Any why would I want him?
There can only be one answer, surely?
I know Kerry Christian. He’s got a charm to him, for sure. Probably quite good company … not that we socialise. But he’s not off to a good start with you, with that approach, is he?
Yes the ‘monetizing’ social networks is pretty damn shallow, I agree.
Look at this comment aimed at Mr Godly — one of key players in this ‘guru’ business who seems to be constantly enlarging his circle of ‘friends’:
* not a real name
I’ve never seen Facebook as a peeing competition, but some teenagers think they’re more ‘popular’ if they have thousands of ‘friends’. I guess it’s not just teenagers.
Those who want to exploit ‘social media’ have cheapened networking.
But, does it work? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t.
Here’s Seth Godin:
[…] be noted, were closed down at the beginning of the year with a loss of AUD$5.5m according to this newspaper report, and at the time, it appears, the business was in the process of paying out refunds to hundreds […]
[…] of a ‘You-can-get-really-rich-really-fast-through-internet-marketing’ um, scheme, Geekversity, doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. It was short-lived, closing down with a loss of $5.5m […]
[…] this MAY emanate from ‘ethical investor’ Dean Letfus’s new business partner itinerant salesman and self-proclaimed internet expert Shaun Stenning (or perhaps one of his henchmen colleagues?) […]
[…] and Stenning’s high profile in promoting that scheme to Aussie battlers. (Perhaps the ‘Shaun Stenning scam’ Google suggestion indicates some […]
[…] if the name rings a bell, is the company which bought the now-infamous Geekversity er, enterprise … then shut it down […]
Yes, Shaun Stenning can not explain his earning. He never shows payment check from Google for CPC and payment check from Merchant for CPA/PPA.
He always refuse to come to Indonesian customers. A lot of excuse always argue to cancel the meeting with him. Loser mentality is Blame – Excuse – Justify. Blaming his clients for no results, Excuse to explain his earning and Justify himself as a winner.
All earning payment that his client got, never come officially from google/merchant. but from his paypal. Earning only shown on Twalk report but never shown in adsense acc or merchant acc. In puket 1&2 he bluffs to make 20.000 for his clients, but never realized. real scammer. Beware.
He promised making dollar in 3 clicks, but will be angry if his client asking him to explain how.
On the stage, he said that user does not need to do anything but celebrate. But after you purchase, there are months of webinars that never come to end. Zero result after one year of education. His Country Manager in Indonesia and All technical Support’s Twalk Account also with zero result.
Now all his client from Indonesa, including his technical support demand him for refund. Hongkong clients already have successful refund movement on March 2010. Right now this Taiwan clients also start to organize refund movement.
His company policy is No Refund Policy for all product. Beware!
http://successresourcesscam.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/shaun-stennings-twitter-cash-machine-results-after-2-months/#comment-3
Hyperbolic sales techniques do tend to leave the ‘action-takers’ feeling disillusioned and ripped off when reality sets in.
If this:
… is accurate, where can we read more about it?
Right now due to this refund movement, hundreds of Indonesian Twalk website is suspended by Shaun. This two website are just 2 of them :
– http://webtoptraffic.com/admin
– http://in-topic.com/admin
Shaun judge refund movement as breach of contract.
I also found that the web http://freshupdate.net/admin also got disabled. But it does not matter at all to me, because the web is just another silly junk web that cannot make money $ 20,000 as Shaun promised.
Shaun Stenning. Exhibit ‘G’ …
What a pretty little notice to tell you your web marketing ‘business’ (cough, splutter) has been suspended!
If you want to know more about refund movement in indonesia and hongkong, you may contact success resource singapore
[…] heartfelt comment recently on an earlier thread suggests a mass rebellion of dissatisfied customers in Shaun […]
I’m confused, those 2 sites are registered to Shaun’s buddy Ian Naylor. So do they control the domains you use? or have Shaun Stenning and Ian Naylor fallen out?
webtoptraffic.com
in-topic.com
I had thought that Twalk had the ability to post to your blog, I didn’t realise they actually ran the blog. Smacks of “I made you, I can take it away”.
Bad business plan for the owner IMO.
Yes it does raise the question: WHAT was a happy customer actually BUYING? – P
See my post today: http://www.thepaepae.com/shaun-stenning-refund-demands/12161/
just to clarify the domain isn’t owned by Ian Naylor, it’s administered by him, bit of a difference 🙂
Yes, they control all domains
As the domain owner you can request from the registrant to transfer the administration details to yourself.. This is common knowledge online..
I bet that is really comforting to anyone having a dispute, given the registration service is in fact provided by DealClick (Ian Naylor).
More to the point, the domains are hosted on a cloud server controlled by Twalk. Sadly the reality is that the majority of people who buy into these type of internet marketing programs lack the knowledge to actually make it work (as admitted by Troy Rushton following Geekdom’s collapse) even with the support (such as it is) of the program provider.
So even if control of the domain name was successfully transferred, the odds of such a person successfully migrating their site(s) to another server is slim to none.
As a Twalk owner and user we can post the blogs ourself, I think it’d be wise that you do not comment on thing that you have never tried or used before. As a user I’ve found the training, education and software extremely great to use, I’ve generated income from it and the strategies that have been opened to me have allowed me to work full time as a consultant for social media and am doing quiet well from it. So while you guys are here slamming Shaun without ever being in his program, using his software or going through his training those of us that actually put it to use do get results from it, it’s unfortunate that not everyone does actually do work (which is what business and internet businesses require to make them successful).
Jason.
Some responses from Shaun Stenning:
http://www.thepaepae.com/shaun-stenning-refund-demands/12161/comment-page-1/#comment-3217
http://www.thepaepae.com/shaun-stenning-refund-demands/12161/comment-page-1/#comment-3280
@Xav: re “I bet that is really comforting to anyone having a dispute, given the registration service is in fact provided by DealClick (Ian Naylor).”
Yes, thanks, I agree with what you say here (well, what I understand of it) — and thanks for reminding me of Troy Rushton’s confession.
I don’t lightly describe Shaun Stenning and Dean Letfus as travelling salesmen … it seems likely to me that their hyperbolic sales pitches skirt over details about the so-called ‘cashflow machines’ these punters in Asia are discovering now. – P
Other Shaun’s testimony can read here
http://vendyxiao.com/2010/02/my-shaun-stennings-twitter-cash-machine-result-after-2-months/comment-page-1/#comment-4705
I borrow money to buy Twalk Program cost me 8.000.000 rupiah because Shaun Stenning say with JUST 3 click and do not need website you can get lot of money.. Now i’m broke.. i don’t have money to pay the bank.. Oh.. what a man in the world can [allegedly] lie Indonesian people.. Maybe God will give him punishment.. to [allegedly] lie all people in the world.. collect money from poor people, make people broke, angry, that they have not right to use all the money (they spend my money in Phucket, they pay all they hotel, vacation with my money.. ohhhh..) .. they laught behind all people they lie..
I hope if FBI, CIA cannot catch this scam.. maybe God will give him punishment..
Broke people who buy scam product from Hyperbolic Shaun Scam Stenning..,
Mike
[Comment: I can understand your frustration, but please be careful with your allegations. ‘LIE’ is a pretty tough word. It’s pretty clear this guy’s sales pitch is persuasive … but like others of his ilk, it appears that the results are a disappointment for significant numbers of his ‘customers’. – Peter]
[…] I was a humble part of that PT discussion (blush) even stumbling across a link describing the awful denouement when that mangy Geekversity carcass of a so-called business was finally put out of its misery (following mass refund demands – remind you of anything?) at a loss of AUD $5.5million. […]
[…] only they could have digested the warnings that were online like Q: Is this a Shaun Stenning product? A: Er, cough. Well, yes and no … about these operators […]
After reading this, I can see why he moved to Thailand … I call for extradition
[…] reminded me of the Geekversity Instant Expert so breathlessly promoted by down-on-their-luck ‘property experts‘ […]
The mere mention of Kerry Christian is enough to make my blood boil! (And my wallet weep.) Be warned not to be sucked in by his friendly demeanour! I have just had full refund costs awarded to me at a Disputes Tribunal Hearing for monies he took from me for a project he resigned from. He has retained the entire fee for over a year, despite not a cent being spent on the project! And now, he has ignored the Court ruling that it be paid back in full within 7 days (you can see what the judge thought of him!!) I now have to go through the Court Enforcement procedures to try and extract it. I cannot believe I was so taken in. However, anyone reading an article online from last Novemeber’s Queenstown ‘Mountain Scene’ newspaper will see that the phrase “chequered past” is not used without reason!
[…] couple of years ago when I was blogging about the shady operations of a gaggle of ‘internet marketing experts’ (cough) […]
[…] the time I was detailing the questionable marketing methods of another bunch of internet marketing whiz-kids, a series of blogs (not blog posts — actual blogs) sprung up on the internet using my name and a […]